Have you spied a Birdie in Funnell’s Wood?
Jul 15th, 2008 by member666
I recently came across this wonderful website and immediately entered the wood in search of a very rare species, my great grandmother, Birdie Mary Funnell.
Birdie Mary married my great grandfather, Henry William Stagg, on 1st May 1880 at St Simon’s Church, Southsea.
Their marriage certificate gives her age as 19, a spinster. Her father is Alfred James Funnell, tradesman. The marriage was witnessed by Francis Diment and Sophia Stagg (Henry’s sister).
Henry, a batchelor aged 25, was a butler residing at Kensington Palace.
A year after their marriage in April 1881, when my grandfather was born, they were living at 102 Oakley Street, Lambeth and Henry William had become a fishmonger.
1891 sees them at Tyrell Road, Camberwell with three children and Henry is now a civil servant.
1901 they are still in the same district at Pellatt Road, now with five children and Henry William still in the same job.
The children were: Henry Francis Victor Stagg (b.1881)(my grandfather)
Ethel Birdie Stagg (b.1883)
Valentine Herbert C. Stagg (b.1888)
William George V. (b.1893)
Jack Vernon F. (b.1901)
I was intrigued by the name “Birdie” and thought it would be easy to track down her birth record. Not so.
There is, however, a Mary Jane Funnell, born to Alfred Funnell and Fanny Funnell (formerly Thorpe) in Portsea on 4th November 1860 and I feel sure this must be her.
If it is, why did she become “Birdie”? Was she very small in stature, i.e. bird-like or perhaps she had a wonderful singing voice?
Has anyone else heard her singing in the wood?
I’d love to know.
I am Vivienne Christina Gardner (nee Stagg).
6 Responses to Have you spied a Birdie in Funnell’s Wood?
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Can’t make your Birdie fly but I have some info on Mary Jane and her family.
Her parent’s marriage is registered in the June quarter 1859 at Portsea, 2b 638, Alfred Funnell and Fanny Thorpe. There is a birth and death registered for an Alfred James Funnell in the first quarter of 1860 at Portsea Island (2b 273 and 2b 399) which could be an unfortunate first child.
The 1861 census information shows this family at 2, Pafoots Court, Portsea with Mary Jane Funnell (5 months), Ellen (3) and Fanny Thorpe (6), probably two illegitimate daughters. Alfred is a bootmaker born in Brighton. Frances (Fanny) a seamstress born in Chichester.
Class RG9 Piece 636 Folio 105 GSU 542675
In 1871, the family is back in Brighton at 16, Frederick Street. Alfred’s occupation is given as Cordwainer. Mary Jane is 11. Also listed are Emily (8), Elizabeth (6), Alice (4) and Kate (1).
RG10 Piece 1082 Folio 128 Page 7 GSU 827499
In ten years, 3 more daughters are born: The 1881 census lists Rosina (9), Minni (7) and Charlina (2) plus Kate (11) living with parents at 52 Viaduct Road, Brighton (civil parish of Preston, district Steyning). Alfred is a Bootmaker again. Frances and Alfred are both said to be 46.
RG11 Piece 1100 Folio 35 Page 8 GSU 1341259
Rosina is a domestic servant to the Bourdas family of Streatham, Clapham Common in 1891* and married to John Funnell in 1901*, son of Joseph J. from Brighton. (* Census info only)
In 1891, Alfred (55) and Frances (54) are living at 3 Fountain Street, Streatham. Alfred is listed as a Cordwainer.
RG12 Piece 459 Folio 83 Page 5 GSU 6095569
It’s interesting to note that this address is not too far from at least 2 daughters.
Alfred first appears in the 1841 census, aged 7 living at 4, Boyce’s Street, Brighthelmstone (now Brighton). His parents are Charles Funnell, 48, Shoemaker, and Elenor, 46, (sometimes Ellen or Helen). Amongst their children are Edward (19), George (16), James (14), Sarah (12), Nemiah (10), Mary (8) and William (3).
Class HO107 Piece 1122 Book 3 Enumeration district 4 Folio 29 Page 5 Line 21, GSU 464166
The gap between the father’s age and the eldest child suggests there may be elder siblings who have left home. A possible marriage is Charles Funnell and Helen Haselgrove, Brighton, 24th October 1814 (Sussex Marriage Index).
In 1851, the family is living at 7, South Street, Brighthelmstone. Charles and Elenor are aged respectively 56 and 54. Alfred is 15, a shoemaker living with parents and siblings Mary and William.
HO 107 Piece 1646 Folio 117 Page 49 GSU 193551
In 1861, Charles and Ellen are 2, Kent Street, Brighton with daughter Sarah (31). Charles is still listed listed “boot and shoe maker”.
RG9 Piece 600 Folio 9 Page 11 GSU 542669
In 1871, only Charles (80) and Sarah (40), “housekeeper” are left at this address.
RG10 Piece 1086 Folio 35 Page 20 GSU 827501
You will have guessed by now that Alfred’s elder brother, Edward Funnell, made the world’s smallest watch (see story).
Unfortunately, the 1841 census only gave “Sussex” as the birthplace for Charles and Elenor. Anyone ?
In order not to lead Viv along the wrong branch –
Rosina Ann Funnell is not the Rosina married to John Funnell on the 1901 Census. This is Rosina Elvina Turner married 1895 Dec qtr Brighton ref 2b 432.
Not sure on a marriage for Rosina Ann – however – a Rosina A. Funnell did marry a James Longhurst 1919 June qtr Lewisham ref 1d 2457 but this would make Rosina 47 – quite possible since I can’t find a death for her as a Funnell.
Alfred’s older brothers not mentioned may have been Charles bap 2 Jan 1816 St. Nicholas, Brighton and John bap 22 March 1818 also at St Nicholas’ Church – parents are Charles/Eleanor Funnell – source IGI.
On closer inspection of the Census Return 1841 Nemiah Funnell aged 10 actually reads as Harriet – Ancestry doesn’t always transcibe accurately!
Hope this helps
Wendy Russell nee Funnell – back from the great beyond!
Birdies in Funnell’s Wood?. Yes, I have not only spied one, but I actually lived with one briefly. Ethel Birdie Stagg was my grandmother, and I remember her quite well, since she stayed alternately with my mother and my aunt two weeks on and two weeks off until her death in 1979.
I talked to my aunt in the 1990s, but, in spite of her being completely on the ball, it took prompting for her to remember that she had had four uncles, Henry, Valentine, William and Jack. But the only one I have a death for is Valentine (in 1931), and I can only assume that they were all so far in the past that they had quietly faded into the background. I am still intrigued by where they went.
I agree with everything that Andy adds, the only quibble being that it is uncertain whether Fanny and Ellen Thorpe are Alfred Funnell’s daughters from before the marriage, or whether they are someone else’s. However I can add from the 1881 census:
Compton, Guilford, Surrey, at 7 Polsted House:
Raymond W Maude Head Mar 28 . . .
Ellen Thorpe Serv Unm 23 Parlour maid (domestic) Hants Portsmouth
Emily Funnell Serv Unm 18 House maid (domestic) do do
+ various others
They would be known in the house to be sisters; for them to be recorded under different surnames would suggest that they had different fathers.
Ellen’s birth is almost certainly registered Apr/Jun 1858 Portsea Island Vol 2b, page 341 which should give her father. Fanny Thorpe is registered Oct/Dec 1954 Portsea Island Vol 2b page 329.
To Identify the various members of the 1861 Funnell family it helps to chase the Thorpe family.
I think that I may have chased down Ellen Thorpe as marrying a Joseph Hobday, but there is plenty of room for doubt:
The 1891 census has in Wynds Point, Ombersley, Worcs:
Joseph Hobday Head M 36 Gardener, domestic servant Hampshire, Ombersley
Ellen Hobday Wife M 33 Hampshire, Ombersley
+children Nellie (5) and Walter (11 mo), born in Malvern.
Obviously Hampshire, Ombersley is a recording/transcription error, so rather unhelpful.
The 1901 census has Joseph born in Ombeasley, and Ellen married in Portsmouth, Hants. And lists children Nellie F(?) (15), Walter J (10), Gertrude A (5) and Rose E (9 mo).
In 1911 Ellen, widowed is living in Victoria Rd, Wargrave, Berks with Gertrude, stating that her marriage (has) lasted 28 yrs and that all 4 children are still living.
If this line is correct the marriage will have been registered as 3.5.1883, in West Clandon, Surrey, (nr Guildford) Jan/Mar 1883 Volume 2a, page 65. West Clandon and Compton are about 6km apart. The marriage certificate should prove it one way or the other. But who would the father be given as?
Fanny Thorpe (Alfred James Funnell’s wife, b c1837) is in the 1861 census at Pafoot’s Court, Portsea, living with Alfred, with her first 2 daughters Fanny & Ellen given Thorpe as a surname.
The other head of household in the property is Jane Thorp, aged 62 and a nurse. Jane also appears in the 1851 census living in Portsea, 33 Daniel St:
Janey Thorpe Head Widow 54 Nurse Sussex, West Dean
Arthur do Son U 20 Shoemaker Sussex, Chichester
Frances do Daur U 14 Seamstress Do Do
Mary do Do U 5 Scholar Hants, Kingston [in Portsmouth]
(Jane is mistranscribed as Janey, due to a stroke from the next line of text.)
That mother-in-law should live in as a nurse makes sense for the young family. However there is a second Jane Thorp, also a widow, also a nursemaid, also born West Dean in 1795, in the 1851 census, working at the Albert Tavern in Warblington St. Were there really 2 Jane Thorp nursesmaids in the area born in West Dean around 1795? Or was she working at 2 jobs and has 2 entries in the census?
The 1841 census has the Thorpe family (probably) living at the Deanery, Chichester:
Canal Rd:
Mary Attrell 50 Charwoman Sussex
Jane Thorpe 40 Sussex
William Thorpe 15 Sussex
Thomas do 10 Sussex
Arthur do 10 Sussex
James 5 Sussex
Fanny 5 Sussex
A search of the parish records for Chichester produces the following, all children of Robert and Jane Thorpe:
Charles Thorpe bap 31.10.1819 West Dean, nr Chichester
Henry Thorpe bap 20.7.1825, St Peter the Great Chichester
Thomas Thorpe bap 1.3.1827, St Peter the Great Chichester
Robert Thorpe bap 2.12.1828, St Peter the Great Chichester
James Thorpe bap 2.10.1832, St Peter the Great Chichester
West Dean is interesting in that the Jane(y) Thorpe of the 1851 census has her born in West Dean. I think that these are almost certainly the same family
Mary (as in the 1851 census) seems to be the Mary Louisa Thorp registered as Jan/Mar 1846 Portsea Island Vol 7 page 163.
If Jane(y) is a widow in 1851 and no husband is present in 1841, why? Being Portsea he might be at sea. Mary Louisa’s birth certificate could be interesting. According to IGI there is a Robert Thorp marrying Jane Collins at West Dean 16.4.1818. Thorpe and Collins are common names in West Dean and East Dean. There is a Mary L Thorpe, housemaid, in Cardinham in 1871, born Portsea but mistranscribed Portu, who is probably Mary Louise.
Regarding Alfred James Funnell’s parents:
Neither Nemiah or Harriet – IGI has an entry that confirms Charles/Eleanor Funnell through their son Nehemiah:
The Providence Chapel, Brighton (Ringmer Broyle Chapel), has
No 53
Nehemiah son of Charles Funnel of the parish of Brighton County of Sussex Shoemaker and of Elenor his wife (who was the daughter of John and Sarah Hazelgrove) was born on the fourth day of October in the year of our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred and Thirty one; and was solemnly baptized with water, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, on the Twenty-third day of October in the year of our Lord,One Thousand Eight Hundred and Thirty-one at Cavendish Street Chapel in the Parish and County Aforesaid by me James Way, Minister
Nehemiah has a burial record on ancestry.co.uk in Brighton on 8.1.1844 (marked as female!),
Jan/Mar 1844 Volume 7 Page 226. So the 1851 census entry confirms Elenor Hazelgrove as being the correct mother for Alfred James Funnell, and gives us her parents, John and Sarah (presumably born between 1785 and 1810) .
Also at the Chapel:
Sarah etc . . .. . born 28.5.1829,, bp 5.7.1829
James etc . . . . born 13.8.1827 . . bp 12.9.1827
Hazelgrove (Haselgrove etc) is quite a common name in Sussex.
The most promising pair of parents for Elenor is John Haselgrove who married Sarah Burton at St Nicholas Brighton 10.9.1775.
There is an Ellen Hazelgrove born to John and Sarah Hazelgrove at St Nicholas Brighton baptised 31.1.1794. Probably the right one.
Others:
Mary dau of John & Sarah Hazelgrove, bp St Nicholas Brighton 16.1.1790
William son of John & Sarah Hazelgrove, bp Brighton 11.9.1785
Thomas s of Charles & Eleanor Funnel chr St Nicholas Brighton 24.6.1821
William s of Charles & Eleanor Funnel chr St Nicholas Brighton 24.6.1821
Charles s of Charles & Eleanor Funnel chr St Nicholas Brighton 2.1.1816.
Edward s of Charles & Eleanor Funnel chr St Nicholas Brighton 28.4.1822
John s of Charles & Eleanor Funnel chr St Nicholas Brighton 22.3.1818
+ Many Haselgrove marriages in the late 1700s.
From Vivienne Gardner…
William,
As you will know Henry, Ethel Birdie, Valentine, William and Jack Stagg were siblings, Henry being my grandfather and Ethel Birdie your grandmother, so I believe we are second cousins!
My family research has been sketchy lately and I have mostly concentrated on the Staggs’ so I’m afraid I don’t hold any of the certificates which would confirm who the father of Fanny and Ellen Thorpe is but there are certainly some interesting leads to follow up in all the detail you have set out.
Here are a few facts about the Staggs’:
Henry Francis Victor was born 10th April 1881. His parents, Birdie (Mary Jane Funnell) and Henry William Stagg were living at 102 Oakley Street, Lambeth with Henry William’s profession given as fishmonger. He married Christiana Caroline Esther Ramsay in 1903. My grandparents had 5 children, my father being the youngest, another Valentine. My grandfather died, age 72, of tuberculosis at 18 Rockmount Road, Upper Norwood on 23rd November 1953. He owned this house and also no. 14. When I was a very small child I also lived at no. 18 but because of my grandfather’s illness my immediate family was re-housed when I was 5 years old, so my memories of him are quite vague. I do have his war record and a photo of him sitting in a deckchair in the garden of no. 18. Family legend has it that John Logie Baird lived in one of houses opposite and he and my grandfather were great friends and “boffins” together. I believe my grandfather invented some form of copper coil for the radio while John Logie Baird invented television!
Valentine Herbert Chivers was born in 1888, registered in the first quarter in Camberwell (1d 862) (maybe he was born on Valentine’s day?) and died aged 43 in 1931 (1d 657). He served in the Army Cyclist Corps and the Rifle Brigade.
William George Vincent’s birth was registered in the last qtr 1893, again in Camberwell (1d 789) and he died in 1919, aged just 25 (1d 1140). He was an electrical engineer and served in the Royal Engineers.
Jack Vernon F. born 1901 (Camberwell 1d 851) sadly only lived until 1912 (1d 806). I don’t have certificates for these 3.
I have little detail of Ethel Birdie except her birth in 1883 and death in 1979, but of course you will know a lot more about your grandmother.
The Stagg family lived at various addresses in the Dulwich area and in the 1911 Census are at 35 Underhill Road, E. Dulwich. Henry William is 57 and a Civil Servant working in the Probate Registry. Birdie, for the first time given as Mary Jane Stagg is 50. George Vincent (he seems to have dropped the William) is 18 and a motor mechanic and Jack aged 11. In 1901 they were at 45 Pellatt Road with all the children at home and my grandfather, the eldest at 19 shown as a carpenter and Ethel Birdie, 17, a clerk/typist.
The only other information I have is a probate record which tells us that when Henry William Stagg died (at Underhill Road) in 1923, Birdie was left £889 8s 3d.
We had some wonderful names in our family and I am intrigued by “Birdie”, the name that Mary Jane Funnell adopted and also passed on to her daughter. Was this due to her appearance, perhaps petit and birdlike, or did she have a wonderful voice? Or was this just a popular name at the time that she fancied? We shall never know.
Vivienne Gardner (née Stagg)
From Nikki Hughes…
Hi Andy,
I have attached a couple of photos which you are welcome to add if you think they may be of any interest. The first one is obvious, a description of Edward Funnels smallest watch. The second is of a birthday book which belonged to my Gt Grandmother Emily Funnell b. 7th Nov. 1862. This was given to her on her 22nd Birthday. There are a couple of entries which may be of interest. One is the entry (in pencil) on Nov. 5th which simply says:
‘Birdie staying’
I am sure somewhere on this site someone wrote about Mary Jane Funnell being known as Birdie? so I thought you might like to see it, although there is no other mention of Birdie in the book.
Also I have found out that Emily Funnells daughter Lily Price married her cousin Maurice Leonard Green in September 1918. Son of Bessie ( nee Elizabeth Funnell) and Richard Stephen Green. The family lived in a Railway Cottage as RSG was a Signalman. One of their sons was a Railway Porter. I thought it interesting with the connection of Edward (their cousin) having a hand in signal time clocks. The station was Horsted Keynes where the railway station scenes in Downton Abbey were filmed.
All the best,
Nikki Hughes
More from Nikki Hughes…
I can confirm the following due to entries in Gt-Grandmothers little Birthday Book:
Indeed William Croom-Johnson is most probably correct about Ellen Thorpe being married to a Hobday. There is an entry on March 3rd (in pencil again) Mrs Hobday. Another on April 25th for Walter Joseph Hobday.
Also in the 1911 census there is a Rose Eveline Hobday, aged 10 ‘niece,’ born Malvern Wells, staying with Emily Price (nee Funnell) and her family at 50 lower Derby rd. Stamshaw, Portsmouth.
Head : Richard John Price aged 54 b. Pimlico
Wife: Emily Price 47 b. Portsea
Lily Price Daughter 18 b. Portsea
John Alfred Price Son 10 b. Portsea. – (my Grandfather)
Mary Mitchell Niece 14 b. Parsons Green
Rose Eveline Hobday Niece b. Malvern Wells.
Genes Reunited have wrongly transcribed Rose Evelyn Hobday as Holiday but the original is quite clear.